"I was watching a specail the other night and was suprised to find out that during the siege at Waco, ATF and FBI officers didn't shoot one round, while at the same time hundreds of shots were fired at them.". Theres no moral case to be made for the proposition that poaching game is a crime, but poaching human beings is sound and defensible public policy. After felling them with a .357 Magnum, he shot each in the head with a .22-caliber rifle. made-for-television movie. If interested, search for a Hardcover copy of the book: One thing I can say, is that Claude Dallas did not live off the land or kill only what he needed. Thank you! He authored six books, most recently his posthumous work, 2023 The Libertarian Institute. Anyone who unlawfully threatens a life is subject to the other human acting in self-defense, LEO or not. A self-described Mountain Man, Dallas, 36, is a romantic folk hero to some people who admire his Old West toughness, but he is considered by law enforcement authorities in several Western states to be a cold-blooded killer. Apparently, Mr.Dallas did not do any extra time and kept his mouth shut about what really happened, showing more integrity and intelligence than the people who kept him imprisoned. I agree that the best way to deal with the law is to be polite and respectful, however when the law is abusive/rude I can honestly say that I would have a very hard time convicting someone who fought back in such a case if I where serving on a jury. Thomas Jefferson. He was released in February 2005, and since then he has been sighted living in Grouse Creek, Utah and in the Alaska wilderness. I can't ever excuse killing a law enforcement officer or anybody else unless in fear of my life or to protect somebody else. I considered it to be a great honor and privilege to sit down and interview Sheriff Nettleton, this man was the real deal a dying breed of law-men that helped to preserve the integrity of Western Culture. The infamous trapper/poacher who killed two Idaho Fish and Game officers in 1981 will find the American West is not such a hospitable place for a man who wants to live off the land. Like Jeff Newman who was once employed by the agency Bill and Tammie McCutcheon can testify of the indisputable truth of the characterization offered by the Shovel Brigade. It sounds like AK F&G used the same solution as the Catholic Church when dealing with employees who were out of line. As a sideline, Newman. They were going to handcuff me.. Consider this: Seven years earlier, the Feds had seized him out of season, as it were, by arresting him after Congress had rescinded the hunting license it had granted the draft-nappers. Coyote Encounters Map. self-defense, wants no part of the restrictions being a parolee Claude Dallas will walk out of prison Sunday into a different world. Some of you have asked when Pro Libertate Radio will return. The way I interpret the information, the stories about Pogue being abusive were unsubstantiated. He doesnt want to talk to the media or make a big deal out of his release, said Kevin Kempf, the prison warden. One will never know for sure, but there was a trial, a verdict, and it sounds as if he served his sentence in full. Create a password that only you will remember. After shooting them, Dallas delivered the coup de grace by firing a .22-caliber bullet into each of their brains. "Justice is served," Dallas' attorney, Renae Hoff of Caldwell, said of the ruling. Since 1995, the shaggy-haired 45-year-old landscaper has been observing Phoenix skies for hours a day in search of photographic evidence of unidentified flying Dallas eked I guess that I must have an honest look to me! Reputations don't create themselves, Pogue had a bad one according to virtually everyone. "Owyhee County Prosecutor Lawrence Wasden and Sheriff Tim Net-tleton wanted to sell off the weapons at a public auction to help offset a costly murder trial and investigation. It seems Mr. Dallas wishes to put the ordeal in the past and be left alone. This was shown on TV as it was happening. Eddy Carlin's meeting with Dallas had made him uneasy. fewer places to go to carry on this sort of semi-hermit lifestyle," Chance of snow 40%. Pogue, like other self-important martinets who see themselves as indispensable cogs in the mighty machine of the State, was an authoritarian prig who expected deference from Mundanes. people we're glamorizing today are Bill Gates and Larry Ellison. In both cases, the Feds could EASILY have arrested Weaver and Koresh without any loss of lifeinstead, they chose to grandstand and people died.for that, someone in power should pay dearly! Why are we still having these debates? When Dallas returned to Paradise Valley, his fellow ranch hands noticed an ominous change in his disposition. At 4:30 p.m., Kuo said, FBI agents showed up at the motel and said the new guest had been arrested. Pogues regular partner wasn't available so he called on Elms to go with him. The FBIs really got them. Tammie, along with her 12-year-old daughter and the twins, had pulled over to the side of the road while Bill and the couples teenage son gone into the nearby forest. I was returning from an unsuccesfull hunt on Juniper Mt. After analyzing the 23,000 sightings across the country, Travel Channel came up with a list of the eight states with the highest likelihood of having your own Bigfoot encounter. author of the 1985 book, "Give a Boy a Gun," about the Dallas saga. The two game wardens suspected Claude of crossing over to Idaho and trapping and possessing bobcats and then sneaking em back over to to his Nevada camp. Meridian man charged with murder in his wife's death at McCall on Feb. 18, Items seized from murder suspects family home revealed, Bulldogs, Wildcats hope to complete the story, Kendrick, Timberline boys are in familiar territory, Idahos attorney general puts himself before Idaho, March 1 Letters to the Editor: Our Readers Opinions, Feb. 28 Letters to the Editor: Our Readers Opinions. The Sheriff, who should have arrested Tripp for aggravated armed assault and sexual battery, chose instead to arrest Bill, who was held in jail for five days before being released. "Modern society is going to squeeze him. total sentence despite an Easter weekend 1986 escape for which he Dallas was publicly heard to swear that no one would ever outdraw him again , Roughly seven years later, two Idaho fish and game wardens Bill Pogue, a former Winnemucca, Nevada police chief, and Conley Elms tracked down Dallass campsite about three miles on the Idaho side of the Nevada border in Owyhee County. After the case against him was dismissed because of procedural mistakes by the Mt. All rights reserved. They argue the public today is not so willing to accept antisocial Partly cloudy skies this evening will give way to occasional snow showers overnight. I think he served his sentence and probably just wants to be left alone. 24 years after deaths of two F&G officers, the West that Dallas knew has changed, but he remains a polarizing character. 201262) published in 1994 titled, This page was last edited on 24 November 2022, at 23:04. Remember that there is a 1,500-word minimum, and that articles on practical how-to skills for survival have an advantage in the judging. Gilead, Ohio, he was thrown into a drunk tank, where he was singled out for abuse by sheriffs deputies. really wasn't that much of a mountain man even back then, and jail Please let others know they too can trust SurvivalBlog for the most reliable and practical survival information by voting for SurvivalBlog on topprepperwebsites.com. Long-lost ship found at the bottom of Lake Huron, confirming story of tragic collision, TikTok to set default daily time limit of 60 minutes for minors, Jaguars, narcos, illegal loggers: One mans battle to save a jungle and Maya ruins. Thirty years ago this week, a trapper named Claude Dallas gunned down two Idaho Department of Fish and Game wardens trying to arrest him for poaching in Owyhee County. Satisfied that hed made whatever point he sought to make, Zohovetz released Newman and told him that, he was only issuing a warning regarding the flier. From the beating of Rodney King to the Branch Davidian siege, Thank our liberal judges for this BS, and that is what this is, a bunch of BS. Claude Dallas: The Myth Comes to Life The Blue Review, Claude Dallas, The Oklahoma State Game Warden Association, FUGITIVE MOUNTAIN MAN CAUGHT: KILLER WAS SUBJECT OF TV MOVIE, This is LaVoy 7 years ago: One cowboys stand for freedom, Hallelujah Hammonds are Free At Last Thanks to Pardon from Donald Trump!. Third District Judge Jim Doolittle on Monday rejected the county's pursuit of some 21 firearms, assorted hunting knives and enough bullets to equip a small army as "contraband. When they arrived at the cattle camp in Nevadas Paradise Valley, the three shabbily dressed men claimed that they were interested in a job. Stevens, who happened to be visiting the trapper's camp that day, witnessed the shootings and saw Dallas shoot Elms and Pogue in the head as they lay on the ground. about their messages. . Times staff writers Ronald J. Ostrow in Washington and Louis Sahagun in Riverside contributed to this article. Today we present another entry for Round 93 of the SurvivalBlog non-fiction writing contest. Dallas fled the scene of the killings and was found after a 15-month manhunt. Other reported sightings were made in Montana, Wyoming and Nevada. Dallas, 36, a trapper and survivalist, escaped Sunday from the penitentiary near Boise. This doesn't mean he deserved to die, however he wore a badge and strapped on a gun. WebStackhouse, the creator and host for the show, was out with friends when they noticed these strange lights in the sky over Scottsdale, Arizona. Im gonna get you, Dallas even if its just for tax evasion, the FBI agent hissed in his ear as the cowboy was released. The sheriff, informed of the judge's order late Monday, seemed momentarily stunned. Claude Dallas, the escaped killer of two Idaho game wardens who had vowed never again to be taken alive, was captured--unarmed and without a fight--Sunday afternoon in Riverside, the FBI said. Eventually caught and convicted, he escaped from prison last March and, as the ads for the movie state, is still at large. Was it possible rumor and/or innuendo report the trappers whereabouts and intelligence to the Idaho Fish and Game for economic or political aspirations? Rubin Carter,Geranamo Pratt and Randy Weaver were all victims. The two don't often go together, but in this case, they did. [14] After manslaughter convictions in 1982, his prison escape trial ended in acquittal in 1987. The FBI would not discuss what led agents to the fugitive. 2005 because of administrative "good time" -- a reduction in the There is no none notta zero way this fella should be out let alone be above ground as we speak now! Ironically, the BLM requires a special permit to visit or even take pictures or film at Bull Camp today. When the case went to trial in March 2011, U.S. District Court Magistrate Craig M. Kellison ruled that Zohovetz had no right to remain on Newmans property once he had been ordered to leave. He also cited a Supreme Court precedent acknowledging that the freedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state.. as far as he can away from the general population.". I have a hard time buying the idea that the wardens somehow "got it in" for Dallas, without him doing anything first and probably several times to make them want to get him. What baffles me is that he could finish them off with a rifle and not be convicted of murder. You have permission to edit this article. And he will be released in less than four years no matter what MMarketello, as usual, just as with the lies the left liberals on teeeveee tell you about those evil semi-automatic guns they --and you -- want to ban, you've again swallowed hook, line, and sinker, the left wing pap fed you by the propagandists who made that "special.". Do I have to live in a cave to think that killing someone is emphatically not trivial? The ISBN is 0440131685 for the paperback edition. COVID origins? To reach the truth Dallas himself would have to overcome the victims family emotions, media-filtering, sensationalism and false conclusions before the truth fades into a folktale mystery or worse yet a story that falls on the ears of a younger apathetic generation. (He) would kill a lawman with about the same guilt and conscience as he eats his Wheaties in the morning.. At the time, Dallas and the two game wardens stood at points of a triangle roughly five to six feet apart. What compelled Fish & Game to drive all day and night to the wilderness of Bull Camp? Box 303 When he was young, his family moved from the Shenandoah Valley to Michigan and Claude Dallas spent most of his childhood in Luce County, later moving to rural Morrow County, Ohio, where he learned to trap and hunt game. Our Super Survival Pack is now on sale for 20% off. I'm not for one second trying to suggest that what he did was OK or even remotely acceptable. Correction Director Al Murphy also fed the mystique: You give Claude Dallas 6 miles and you might as well give him the country. In a United Press International article it reads Escapee Says He Feared Guards Would Kill Him. Convicted Killer Claude Dallas testified Thursday that he broke out of the Idaho State Prison last year because he feared guards were plotting to kill him and were using his picture for target practice. An email message containing instructions on how to reset your password has been sent to the e-mail address listed on your account. He had this look in his eyes like he wanted to beat the crap out of me, Newman recalled. In early 2010, Newman and some friends he had met in the employ of theSS visited Colby Meadows in the Lassen National Forest, one of their favorite skiing destinations. The most important difference is that most wilderness policemen have adopted the swaggering, imperious disposition of William Pogue. The article goes on to state Their theory: Prison officials faked the fence-cutting to cover the fact Dallas outsmarted his keepers and simply walked out the front door with a group of visitors shortly before 8 p.m. on March 30, 1986. The officers who arrested Dallas said he was polite and friendly. Some within the region regarded him as a folk hero, defying the government by defending his right to live off the land; while others, shocked and disgusted, saw him simply as a coldblooded cop killer. Newman called Chrisman to his home as a witness. Sightings were made along the way in places like Paulden (where a retired police officer saw a "cluster of six or seven lights"), Chino Valley, and Prescott. Not about Dallas, but I just watched the special about the ATF and Waco. This editorial was published by the Idaho Statesman of Boise. Why, Claude? "[citation needed]. What I can't understand is why you refuse to believe that Pogue was possibly a dangerous individual. Dallas gave authorities the slip for almost a year, fanning his reputation as a canny west folk hero. Like I wrote before, I don't care about Ruby Ride or Waco, my interest (as it pertains to this thread) is limited to Claude Dallas and the story, as I understand it from reading "Give A Boy A Gun". Stevens, who was busy elsewhere in the camp, didnt see what happened next but he heard the unmistakable report of a handgun, and whirled around to see Dallas in a shooters crouch, and a bloodstain spreading across Pogues chest. As I remember from reading the above menbtioned book several years ago, Dallas mortally wounded both wardens with one shot each from a 357 mag. Some contend the image created around him and the arguments used But Mauk said Dallas is extremely resourceful and may no longer faces a parole hearing on April 26. The book that I cited is called "Give A Boy A Gun" by Jack Olson. Ten days before the murders, Don's son, Eddy Carlin, had stopped by the camp and checked Dallas out. [4] He eluded capture for over fifteen months, until he was arrested in northern Nevada by FBI Special Agent Franz Nenzel and SWAT officer Dave Gillan on April 18, 1982, north of Winnemucca, after he was shot and wounded in the leg during a car chase and shootout. There are more people who think that the government is an just curious, would it make a different in your opinions in this matter if the dead men were just regular people and not law inforcement officers? He would have had no compunction about shooting several of them had he the means to do so.. We are shooting in the dark with our opinions, because no one knows what really happened to esclate the events leading to 2 lives lost. "Is he going The arrest was illegitimate, which meant that Dallas under the. I do know that I was watching TV when the local channel broke in with a special report live. There have been enormous changes in law enforcement over the past few decades, even the past ten years. James Wesley, Rawles (JWR) is Founder and Senior Editor of SurvivalBlog, the original prepping /survival blog for when the Schumer Hits The Fan (SHTF). The indictment against Dallas had been issued the previous July a month after the draft was discontinued. The reason was that, with the books and television coverage, some citizens were sympathetic to Dallas, thinking of him as a kind of throwback to the 19th Century--a rugged, romantic individual rebelling against modern complexities. Exactly Mark, this zero deserved the death penalty, period. Please drop by and sign up for your free digital subscription! Im generally posting at least one short piece sometimes two or more each day at republicmagazine.com. Nothing pisse$ me off more than power hungry individuals in authority that try to bully those they are supposed to be protecting. We should, as well. man with an attitude as most Idaho Fish and Game Officers have. Learn how and when to remove this template message, "Two wildlife officers gunned down in Idaho", "FBI, deputies grab suspect in game wardens' slayings", "Dallas handed prison term of up to 30 years", "Dallas escapes; woman denies assisting him", "Convicted killer Claude Dallas will be released next month", "Dallas pleads innocent; trial set Sept. 7", "Claude Dallas to testify he acted in self defense", "Mountain man's escape not surprising to many", "Killer Claude Dallas moved to prison facility in Kansas", "Time, distance have not calmed Dallas controversy", "Claude Dallas, who killed 2 officers in '81, to be freed", "Youtube recording of the Russell version", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Claude_Dallas&oldid=1123654220, American people convicted of manslaughter, Articles with unsourced statements from July 2020, Articles needing additional references from July 2020, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, Another book-length treatment of this subject is, Featured in Cort Conley's book (pp. And Tim Nettleton, the Owyhee County, Ida., sheriff, in whose jurisdiction the game wardens were killed, said he was tickled to death that Dallas was back in custody. The encounter escalated, Tammie McCutcheon said,whenTripp tried to remove a hunting tag from the antlers of a deerin the back of the couples truck. . He began to jab me in the chest with his left fingers while working the hammer on his revolver with his right. Tammie McCutcheon said she believed Tripp had no authority to remove the tag, and she grabbed it from his hand, bumping against him as she reached for the tag.. Bill and Tammie McCutcheon, residents of Roundup, Montana, were on a hunting trip with their four children two teenagers and 18-month-old twins. Claude Lafayette Dallas Jr. (born March 11, 1950) was convicted of voluntary manslaughter in the deaths of two game wardens in Idaho. As Tripp later admitted on the record, the properly infuriated husband never pointed his rifle at him even though he would have been well within his legal and moral rights to use lethal force to stop the assault. don't think so. It is true that Dallas had been poaching hides and game. The Daily Web Log for Prepared Individuals Living in Uncertain Times. Dallas is serving a 30-year prison sentence for killing two Idaho Fish and Game conservation officers in 1981. [7][18], At least one juror cited concern that Dallas was acting in self-defense when he shot Pogue. Handloader, I think that you raise a very important point, one that I think is all too often overlooked. Several years back there was a possum sherrif here that we legaly ran off. Zohovetz, having failed in his effort to bully the mild-mannered Newman by himself, called for backup from the local police department. "It's going to be real tough for him," Aman said. country of northern Nevada and southwestern Idaho is steeped in Quite the opposite was the case: He had traveled more than fifty miles to threaten Newman with a citation for posting a commercial flier without the specific permission of the SS. I am with friend Stick on this Claude Dallas deal. Some are just plain gung-ho. Elms and Pogue looked into the sage-grouse poaching first, then approached Dallas regarding the alleged poaching infringements in his camp. I have read the book, and based on the story it told, I don't for 1 second believe that Dallas' life was in danger. Claud did his time and now is getting out. friends and I heard on more than one occasion, Pogue while drinking shoot off his mouth as to how he would shoot Claude Dallas if he ever caught him out in the boonies. Another thing to keep in mind is that the Dallas situation occurred over two decades ago, as did several of the personal anecdotes reported here. The infamous trapper/poacher who killed two Idaho Fish and Game officers in 1981 will find Owyhee County Sheriff Tim Nettleton was instrumental in apprehending outlaw Claude Dallas, for the killings of two Idaho Fish and Game officers in his county. Its all but certain that those in the leadership echelons of SS are aware of the outcome of that case and its just as likely that they have made a conscious decision to ignore it. After the initial gunfire, Dallas used his .22 caliber lever action rifle to shoot both officers execution style, once each in the head. Interesting thread. This would explain a nearly fatal incident involving SS officer Shawn Tripp that took place in Montanas Little Belt Mountains last November 26. Moyie Springs, Idaho 83845. I made a silent pledge to myself, and never told any one about it, the next time I saw him in the desert I would kill him. People will do anything for a dollar. I've read the book, and Ian Tyson's song about Dallas is one of my favorites. Even his lawyer, when we told him, said, I kinda figured on that. Gun violations, such as manufacturing a sawed-off shotgun, are a Federal violation that falls under the the BATF, not local law enforcement. Oh, dearie dear we cant have. Your e-mail address will be used to confirm your account. News: city@lmtribune.com; Subscriptions: online@lmtribune.com; Other: webmaster@lmtribune.com. He shot his victims several times, and finally shot them execution-style. Thats only $0.10/day for some of the finest Survival/Prepping content around! An Idaho sheriff (Rip Torn) hunts a mountain man (Matt Salinger) for shooting two Idaho game wardens in 1981. A lot of guys try it, but the first time they have to shave with cold water they change their mind. ''I won't keep you in suspense, Mr. Dallas. This pack contains over 5,500 open-pollinated seeds and 1 1/2 pints of grain, all packed for long term storage. Bill McCutcheon faces 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine; Tammie whose crime consisted of protecting herself from a sexual assault, could be sentenced to 8 years in prison and a $100,000 fine. If not, why not? Claude Dallas was the first to use lethally armed resistance against agents carrying guns. MMark, they must have meant just the snipers maybe. Formal complaints must have about the same outcome everywhere. I attended gunsmithing school in Denver '78-80. His captors didnt reciprocate. You may occasionally receive promotional content from the Los Angeles Times. Huh? He also issued a citation for threatening an officer, a charge that carries a six month jail sentence and a $5,000 fine. The wardens almost certainly died instantly. Ever since he had arrived in the West, Dallas had frequently displayed an insouciant disregard for poaching laws. I still think he should never see light of day. When the FBI showed up in Winnemucca to apprehend Claude, they were met with fierce opposition and uncooperative residents. What is the future of U.S.-China relations? A tragedy in any event. Partly cloudy skies this evening will give way to occasional snow showers overnight. There were no discrepencies. Brad Little joined legislative and state education leaders Tuesday morning to announce the formation of an advisory council for the Empowering Parents grant program. A small cult of Western buffs and right-wing extremists has grown up around Dallas, whom they see as a self-sufficient, free spirit hounded by authorities. Back 15 seconds. He might be nice and help ya but then again who knows. JJ-IMO this kind of stuff is total BS!!!!!!! He constantly berated me with taunts of "Don't like it, huh boy" and "What are you going to do about, boy" I believed then and believe now he was looking for an excuse to kill me. If anything, he said, the "I fully expect that if he can, as soon as he can, he will go The foreman of the jury that convicted Dallas later said that he would have been acquitted of all charges if he hadnt delivered what was most likely a gratuitous coup de grace. Fools Errand: Time to End the War in Afghanistan, Enough Already: Time to End the War on Terrorism, Hotter Than The Sun: Time To Abolish Nuclear Weapons, The Great Ron Paul: The Scott Horton Show Interviews 20042019, No Quarter: The Ravings of William Norman Grigg, http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2012/01/shadow-of-claude-dallas.html, Your Duty To Protect and Serve the Police, When the Right to Resist Becomes the Duty to Submit, Trayvon Martin and the Cult of Government Supremacy (Update, March 24; Second Update, March 28; Third Update, April 20; Fourth Update, May 17). I was beginning to think that Alonzo's post had put an end to this discussion. the recently published book, "Homicide: 100 Years of Murder in help he could expect from the locals. The fugitive had two bags of groceries in his arms as he emerged from a Stop N Go convenience grocery store near the intersection of University Avenue and Comer Street. Let me tell you about my experience with Bill Pogue. Not me but two guys I know well had the same officer really give em grief over nothing (they don't know each other and it was separate incidences) One of the guys is older and can be abrasive so I wondered about if he brought any of it on himself, but still the actions the F&G guy took were overly vindictive in my mind. But when he murders a warden who abhors anyone who hunts out of season, a nationwide manhunt ensues. 1981, rather than be taken in for poaching, isn't yet ready to get He was serving a 30-year sentence for voluntary manslaughter in the 1981 In the early 20th century, Frederick Jackson Turner argued that interactions on the frontier formed American characteristics of rugged individualism, democracy, aggression and innovation. Claude Dallas killed two Idaho state game wardens in 1981. For months now, they had been telling reporters that Claude Dallas was one tough hombre. He was an outlaw, they said, a self-styled mountain man out of step with the times, a quick-draw artist who had gunned down two conservation officers in a dispute over some minor game violations at his remote campsite. A $3/month subscription. Hoff said she intends to make arrangements this week to release the Dallas goods from their prolonged bondage in Murphy. He made a statement to several people that if he was caught again they would never take him alive. He served 22 years of a 30-year sentence before being released in 2005. The FBI spokesman said Dallas, who was rumored to have been seen in California months ago, was being held temporarily in the Riverside County Jail on a federal fugitive warrant. Dallas will be returning to a much different world than the one The Dallas case is trivial at best,as compared to stuff Politicians do routinely. "The state's motion to forfeit the defendant's property was filed five years, three months and four days after the defendant was convicted; no valid reason for the delay exists," Doolittle wrote. [13] Dallas served 22 years of a 30-year sentence and was released in February2005.[15]. Director Jerry London Writers John Gay Jeff Long (book "The Outlaw") Stars Matt Salinger Claude Akins Beau Starr See production, box office & company info Add to I can't believe that that guy wouldn't have supported Dallas if there was even the most minimal justification for what he did. His survivalist novel Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse, is a modern classic that reached #3 on the New York Times bestsellers list. Owing to the State supremacist indoctrination he had received, Tripp perceived that incidental contact as the high and grievous crime nay, sin of assaulting a federal official. Accordingly, he grabbed the terrified mother, threw her up against the truck, and roughly cuffed her hands behind her back. country in general and Idaho in particular seems more willing than Besides that, what proof is there that either of the LEOs who Dallas killed were either corrupt or abusive? The identity of the man who was with Dallas when he arrived was unknown, and the FBI said no other arrests had been made. He just wants to go live his life. USA Today.com posted 2/6/2005. MMarketello -"I'm not so sure about Waco.