on about your day, ask yourself: How likely is it that the story you just read would have been produced by a different news outlet if The Intercept hadnt done it? Like what does Penn say when you tell them: Hey, the Penn official who helped me fill this out said that these are the categories that I fit. How much research has been done on the foster-care-to-prison-pipeline? I mean, youd been taking loss after loss, despite having the facts on your side. Have you ever heard of her case? And she quickly got interest of a book deal because she was obviously such a great writer. She bounced from one foster home to the next. Cause Ive just wanted to go on with my life and, you know, live it. who was, I believe now, the acting provost. "[12] Gutmann, soon to step down from her position to serve as U.S. ambassador to Germany, had made increasing the amount of FGLI students at Penn a priority in her previous 17 years as the university's president. MF: They have since claimed that that is not what they [laughs] insinuated, I believe my former lawyer spoke to it in The New Yorker piece. Cause I had assumed it was her. And I was actually really nervous about doing any press for this reason. And youre getting instruction from a university official that that's how you're supposed to fill it out, that's what the definition says online. And, honestly, first-generation is never something Ive really identified with fully. ", When Penn's Office of Student Conduct confronted Fierceton with the discrepancy between her statement on two of her applications that she ", The exact definition of FGLI relevant to forms Fierceton filled out is a key point in the Rhodes Trust and Penn investigations of her. [2] Katie Couric had Fierceton as a guest on her podcast a week later. There were three instances of attempted contact from her family or foster family. And its no offense its not like the most profound . Penn shut down in-person classes and gave students living on campus a week to find somewhere else to live until it was safe to return. And so was it later, in a different conversation where they asked about the line in the essay about not being able to recognize yourself or is there some illusion to that in the transcript that you found? RG: First of all, thats one box? It was literally just like: She was arrested and her daughter is hospitalized. And I ultimately didnt end up responding because I got a serious threats from Penn that if I didnt withdraw that they were going to come after my undergrad degree, and launch proceedings to revoke my undergrad degree, and never give me my M.S.W which I was supposed to graduate with in May 2021, I have not yet received that diploma if I didnt withdraw from the Rhodes and sign an NDA. [22] It went into greater detail about her past, providing more substantiation for her abuse allegations from teachers, fellow students and their parents, Carrie Brandt (the police detective who had investigated and arrested Morrison) and her allegations that Morrison had enabled Lovelace's sexual abuse. While that was not literally true, Penn's own definition of an FGLI student included those who have a "strained or limited" relationship with a parent who has graduated from college. The dean of SP2 told Penn otherwise, but Fierceton noted that the school had never shared what its definition was. And the theme of private school definitely came up many times over the course of the last year and a half. They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. Anything interesting in that that you noticed? It quotes her as saying "If you find me dead, it was my mom. And then she hired a law firm and eventually they were doing their own investigation for several months. RG: Well, Mackenzie, thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story. Given the pandemic, Rhodes Scholar judges interviewed candidates over Zoom. Because thats not how we understand poverty. You have a good education and youre clearly smart. ", Morrison said. The show was mixed by William Stanton. And we had a fairly lengthy conversation, just kind of going through the ins and outs of my childhood and left it at, she was like: OK, I understand now and Im just going to leave this. Is that just an interpretation or did they say anything that suggested to you that the fact that you had gone to a private school and grown up in an upper-middle-class situation meant that you could never at any point consider yourself low-income? Even though I had, again, written statements from two ICU nurses who took care of me saying: Yes, there was blood, [laughs] theres photographs, and there still was the argument of like, there wasnt enough blood or your face wasnt so distorted you could couldnt tell who you were. While Kerr noted that Fierceton's three weeks in the hospital was far longer than might be expected given the bruises that led to her admission, she also noted the absence of injuries to Fierceton's back despite having reportedly fallen or being thrown downstairs. So that was what the actual poem and personal statement was about [laughs.] She definitely asked some questions about it. I have all these three kinds of different rationale and corroborations. If youre an independent student, then you should check yes to both boxes. Right. Within a year of her arrest, another St. Louis-area hospital had granted her admitting privileges, and she was able to resume her medical career. We dont have ads, so we depend on our members 35,000 and counting to help us hold the powerful to account. Teachers and parents at Whitfield had donated new clothing and school supplies for her. In 2019, Fierceton testified in a court hearing that, in September 2014, her mother allegedly pushed her down a set of stairs and hit her in the face several times. "[b] She considered running away but had a distant relationship with her father, and nowhere else she believed she could go. Teachers at Whitfield who had been supportive while she was there dropped out of touch. On Saturday afternoon, Fierceton said she found herself in a Zoom meeting for several hours with 10 other finalists from this region. Are we going to see these injuries? In The New Yorker article, one teacher had written: She showed up at my classroom door with a bloodied and battered face and then fainted., And then, Rachel Aviv, the reporter also quotes Sherry McClain, who was a nurse who was assigned to you, she said: She had two black eyes, and her hair was full of blood. And I suspected that it was about this anonymous email. And I ended up reading the comments, and the comments were just horrendous. We dont believe you. We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. Another program official that year recalls Fierceton as seeming more vulnerable than she let on; after picking her up from the hospital following bone surgery that year, she noticed that Fierceton had a very light winter coat and few other possessions. RG: So how is a person who is filling out this application supposed to know what definition youre supposed to use? [1]:111112, Penn's investigators asked Fierceton why she had pretended to be asking on another's behalf when she made her queries within the university. "You can't couch-surf in a pandemic", Norton said. In April, the trust's investigative committee produced a 15-page report praising Fierceton as "gifted, driven, and charismatic" but concluding ultimately that she "created and repeatedly shared false narratives about herself", noting in particular her references to injuries she was treated for in her September 2014 hospital stay that are not reflected in her medical records. Yes, to my lawyer who communicated it to me. Theres people who span all different kinds of experiences. And so the fact that shes continued pursuing you to me kind of demonstrates the entire case. Its, in my opinion, because they get overlooked and the kids like me are kind of rendered invisible by the privileges of our biological families. If youd like to support our work, go to theintercept.com/give your donation, no matter what the amount, makes a real difference. Gathering outside Caster, whose renovation they also demanded, they marched toward College Hall, where Winkelstein had taken over as interim provost following Gutmann's departure, and chanted for her ouster as well. [2], The trust notified Fierceton at the beginning of 2021 that it was conducting an investigation into the allegations. I tried to help as much as I could. Fierceton was born August 9, 1997, under the name Mackenzie Terrell, in Danbury, Connecticut,[1] to Carrie Morrison, a physician who would later head the breast imaging department at St. Luke's Hospital in Chesterfield, where the couple lived. Now anyone who earns that distinction is to be commended, but the article also noted that Mackenzie had aged out of foster care . Cops have accused the MTV star of stalking as well as violation of an order of protection. And Im kind of one of the lucky ones where I had really expansive and thorough documentation for all the parts of this story. And you experienced that yourself, right? RG: Rather than it being for the purpose of benefiting the students themselves. 2020 College graduate Mackenzie Fierceton (Photo from Mackenzie Fierceton). She had bruises all over her body in different stages of healing an obvious sign of child abuse.. In other words, if you are parent who says that you are wishing your daughter well and youre telling the authorities that shes just mentally ill and its just a really, really sad and tragic case that shes making up all of these allegations of abuse and throwing herself down stairs, and beating herself up all for cries for help, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera you wouldnt then also pursue a multi-year long effort to destroy her life. It called attention to claims, such as the one in her application essay, that by the time she was six she "knew every police officer in my county by their first name", a claim Fierceton herself admitted was untrue and born of her fear of her biological family when she wrote it. [1], Shortly after Penn filed its response, the Chronicle of Higher Education reported on the story. They demanded that the university remove the notation from her file. But it doesnt mean you were always low-income, just that you are now. So, yes, an article came out in the local paper saying that she had been arrested. Because Im not under any illusion that Im the typical foster kid. RG: And how much did she challenge your medical condition after that beating? And then as the different internships, and then I went to get my masters in social work and all of this happened, I started to see that continue in different capacities while I was in different roles, seeing that theme in this relationship between foster care and the criminal justice system. [2] They learned that SP2 had no real protocol for an emergency situation in the building. That would have to be the rationale that they would have for those childhood journals to be faked. She didnt even know what building he had died in. Her mother was arrested and charged with child abuse, but those charges were later dropped; state courts later expunged the arrest and ordered her removed from the state's child-abuser registry. RG: And one of the main things they pointed to was that she had gone to this private school . The teacher recalled that she had black eyes and hair matted with blood, a description corroborated by a nurse who saw her on arrival after an ambulance brought her to nearby Mercy Hospital St. Louis. She thought that he had been very quickly removed from the building. And so I did definitely have that kind of like: I have no idea what else is going to convince these people. In the lawsuit filed on Dec. 21, Fierceton, a 2021 School of Social Policy . [22], In the New Yorker article, Fierceton and others criticized Penn for its use of not only her story but another recent FGLI Rhodes awardee as poverty porn, suggesting the university had turned on her when it learned she had actually come from a privileged, affluent background and thus did not fit the narrative of having grown up in foster care recounted in its news release and the accompanying Inquirer article. It didnt have any facts of the case. She retained two lawyers to represent her pro bono; they talked to Morrison themselves, who told them she still loved her daughter and wanted her to come home. But it was definitely something I saw happening sort of this funneling of kids from the child welfare to criminal justice system. RG: That was Mackenzie Fierceton and thats our show. The prosecutor eventually dropped the charges and the arrest record was expunged. Raised in Chesterfield, Missouri, a West County suburb of St. Louis, she attended and graduated from the Whitfield School in Creve Coeur. And then she hired a law firm and eventually they were doing their own investigation for several months. Medical records, records from child welfare services, corroborating letters from detectives and lawyers and elementary, middle, and high school teachers, childhood friends, professors basically everyone who had known me. But her mother wasnt finished with her. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. [2], The next morning, when Fierceton awoke, Morrison told her she was taking her car keys and telling the school she was sick. This was about a week after. And that is, I felt very defeated too. She had wanted to appeal the Rhodes committee's findings, but Rafaelle advised her that Penn had hinted to him that it might consider referring the matter to federal prosecutors on the grounds that she had lied about being FGLI on her Free Application for Federal Student Aid form. "Fuck thatI don't have [a family]" she said later. And that dynamic, I would say, [laughs] probably played a big part in all of this. So the Rhodes Trust ended up after their quote-investigation, and I submitted all the evidence, they ended up still recommending that my scholarship be rescinded, uh, but I had another opportunity to respond to their report, which I absolutely wanted to do. What kind of a group is that? And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. [i] Ruderman corroborated that later to The New Yorker, saying she was paraphrasing Fierceton's self-identification as FGLI. [10], Fierceton, who outside of school had also taken on a volunteer position as a birthing doula, decided during that summer to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship to get a Ph.D. at Oxford University in England, encouraged by a classmate who had just won one himself and was impressed by her activism. [2] Ruderman's story, published the next day, began:[13]. And I think its true. MF: Just a quick circling back, Im actually not sure if it was her who first reached out or if it was General Counsel Wendy White, because I later found out that they had a phone call about 36 hours after the article came out and seemed to talk pretty extensively, and then there were a lot of emails that happened. The article by reporter Rachel Aviv was called How an Ivy League School Turned Against a Student, and it tells the story of an extraordinary battle between Mackenzie and the University of Pennsylvania. Right. Theyre not on a website. [2], Later that year, after that first foster home turned out to be "chaotic", with Fierceton's foster sibling attempting suicide, she moved to another one. MF: Yeah. She has a bachelor's degree in political science from Penn and was working on a master's in social work. As in Fierceton's case, it took an hour to remove Driver from the building. RG: And what was the first-generation community like on campus? RG: Interesting. So you use what you have, uh, which are the definitions that were already out there. And it started with, this paragraph-and-a-half of waking up in the hospital and then, like you said, looking at my face, not recognizing myself, and kind of describing what I felt like and what the room looked like. The battle between her and the school was chronicled by Rachel Aviv in the New Yorker earlier this month. It's from there the story unraveled. Instead, I want to talk more about what this says about the system, that something so seemingly irrational could be produced by this system, and actually could be predicted to be produced by this system in some ways. But I guess I cant say for sure. [2], Shortly after the Rhodes investigation began, Rafaelle was informed that Penn was proposing to revoke Fierceton's bachelors on the grounds of her apparent self-misrepresentation. There were definitely, Im sure. RG: And so when you applied for your masters in social worker or sociology? We want to think of it as: If you were ever rich, youre always rich; if youre ever poor, youre always poor. RG: And because you were not just low-income, actually no income, other than the jobs that you were working nobody has complained about the low-income one, right? A former teacher in elementary school recalled that in one of those calls, Morrison made a reference to an earlier discussion of Fierceton's mental illness; the teacher did not remember any such conversation. MF: You know, I honestly dont know. Every objective and careful reviewer of the facts in this case including the Rhodes Trust, Penns Office of Student Conduct, a faculty committee from Fiercetons graduate school at Penn, and a hearing panel consisting of faculty and students from other Penn schools concluded that Fierceton had not been truthful.. For all the readers could have known, there could have been a videotape of it happening. It recommended that Fierceton's master's be withheld until she paid a $4,000 fine and that her academic transcript carry a notation that she was sanctioned for her "objective inaccuracy" in answering the first-generation question on her application. The university writes: After those who knew Fierceton raised questions about her story, it was investigated not just once, but several times, and not just by Penn faculty and staff, but also the Rhodes Trust. And its striking to see just the continuing to push of what happened. What kind of a group is that? And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? "She was falling apart under the academic stresses at school and was exhausted, and I believe looking for an out." Thats the reality of it, but we dont want to think of it that way. [3] The change in her living situation greatly complicated her college plans as she had no financial resources of her own. And I started interviewing people who were in the class where he died and who were in nearby classes where he died, who knew him, and paramedics who were Penn paramedics and just as many people as I could. And how much confidence do you have that that anonymous complainer was Carrie, your biological mother. And I didnt really know any information, except for that he had had a medical emergency in class and then been pronounced dead at the hospital. Is that just an interpretation or did they say anything that suggested to you that the fact that you had gone to a private school and grown up in an upper-middle-class situation meant that you could never at any point consider yourself low-income? And Penn is still claiming that those are fake journals. MF: verbally. So that was what that specific sentence in The New Yorker was referencing is this kind of condensing this group of people and to one sentence. Because that was one of the ones that really blew my mind. students, defines first generation broadly, including students who have a strained or limited relationship with a parent who has graduated from college. A cousin who lived with the Morrisons for a while did not see any signs of abuse and believed it was possible Fierceton could have inflicted the injuries herself. "She has become emboldened over time, and has been successful with her evolving tale for 6 yrs. And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? What happened the night you ended up in foster care? Penn officials, of course, have said the interview was appropriate. Mackenzie Fierceton, a graduate student at the University of Pennsylvania, has won the prestigious and extremely competitive Rhodes Scholarship, which will allow her to study at Oxford in November 2020. The notation in her transcript remains. Mackenzie is currently suing the university. After the trial ended with Morrison prevailing and the agency ordered to remove her name from the child-abuse registry, Fierceton resolved to change her last name. So they didnt ask about that in this meeting. Nor is she obligated to meet their expectations of her. At school, she began confiding about her situation with a history teacher, telling them about her mother's physical abuse. Then the Philly paramedics couldnt figure out how to get to the building and then they couldnt get me out. Mackenzie, for her part, was accepted to the University of Pennsylvania and, in her sophomore year, won a Rhodes Scholarship. University of Pennsylvania student Mackenzie Fierceton had her Rhodes Scholarship revoked and her master's degree withheld after allegations surfaced that she was lying about her. Im part of a wrongful death lawsuit that was filed in August, 2020. [24], In a statement to The Daily Pennsylvanian, the university said the New Yorker article "did not accurately reflect" the university's investigation of the issues raised by the Rhodes Trust. But the acclaim quickly devolved into acrimony as the university and the Rhodes Trust began questioning aspects of Fiercetons backstory. Mackenzie Fierceton was deposed after seeking justice for a mature student, Cameron Driver, 38. Our greatest desire is that Mackenzie chooses to live a happy, healthy, honest, and productive life, using her extraordinary gifts for the highest good." I wrote a poem about the actual what the message was, which is so cheesy and Im cringing at my 17-year-old self [laughs], but it was about the healing power of gratitude. She arrives as a new student at Erinsborough High School and is connected to the . What was the response from the readers of the paper? So yes, I know that is me. She chose Fierceton from a list of names she had come up with herself that projected strength, and a petition to the Court of Common Pleas in Philadelphia was accepted. And it became pretty clear to me that they had spoken to Carrie and or seen medical records. And thats again, like not because there isnt abuse or neglect going on in families that looked like mine, or biological families that looked like mine. so that people have the background there. I cant say how many questions are left and were close to done. "How much does one have to suffer to have value? After Fierceton was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship during her senior year, questions about whether she had accurately represented her background led to investigations by both the Rhodes Trust and Penn that concluded she had at times suggested or failed to correct the impression left by some statements about her, and her own application essays, that she had grown up a poor foster child. Attached were copies of the Missouri court orders expunging Morrison's arrest and removing her name from the DSS registry. Logan filed her wrongful death suit in August 2020, alleging Penn was negligently responsible for her husband's death through failing to make Caster properly accessible and not making SP2 develop an emergency response protocol. How much research has been done on the foster-care-to-prison-pipeline? Shes lying, shes a spoiled brat, this, that, and the other which looking back at the time I just felt absolutely horrible. So, to cut into the interview here real quick, I wanted to add that Mackenzie is referring to a letter sent to the Rhodes Trust in December 2020. Times over the course of the Missouri court orders expunging Morrison 's arrest and removing her name mackenzie fierceton father soap opera DSS... Mackenzie, thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story are. 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